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Out of the Box: Navigating Neurodivergence is a one-stop guide covering pre-school to early adulthood, from classroom to workplace; it is both compact and compelling for its concise, accessible language and inclusive storytelling. In this exclusive interview with SWN, co-author and renowned journalist Madonna King introduces us to Out of the Box, and how it came together through harnessing the power of community and own voices. 

Join us, as we embark on this fascinating, mind-opening and neuro affirming conversation. 

Cognitive Conversations #4: “Out of the Box: Navigating Neurodivergence” 

In a world of social media and hyper connectedness, there are many myths and misconceptions about autism and ADHD, and despite increasing awareness and improvements in access and inclusion, there is still a prevailing stigma around ‘labels’ and diagnoses. What does the research tell us about social barriers and stigma when it comes to our neurodiverse population? Why are systems like the NDIS falling short and what could they be doing better? Out of The Box addresses all these issues – and so much more. 

Between its pages, you’ll find a multitude of tips, expert advice and first-hand accounts, as a result of the countless families, teachers, caregivers, and members of the neurodivergent (ND) community that the authors spoke to, as well as consulting world-leading researchers in paediatric care, psychiatry and psychology. Madonna sheds light on what parents or teachers might notice if a child is ND, but has not undergone assessment, and what kinds of support or adjustments might be available. The framework the book proposes is based on the social model of disability, using neuro-affirming language to promote diversity and inclusivity, so rather than neurodivergence being a ‘diagnosis’ it’s re-framed as an ‘explanation’. The book also informs us that with increased awareness and diagnoses, more parents and relatives of ND kids are recognising ND traits in themselves. 

Finally, we chat about artistic practice, and how visual art, writing, music, and drama can play a part in educating and communicating neurodivergence to the broader public. This is a timely call-to-action and much-needed insight into navigating neurodivergence from a range of perspectives, and most importantly, voices from the neurodivergent community. It’s no exaggeration to say that the response to this book – now in its third reprint – has been phenomenal, and the conversations it’s sparking (like this one!) are truly game-changing. 

Topics covered in this interview include:

• viewing neurodivergence as a “colour wheel” rather than a linear spectrum

• adjacent explanations, such as anxiety and depression, OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and PDA (pathological demand avoidance). 

• various traits and behaviours associated with autism and ADHD, such as masking or camouflaging, meltdowns, and stimming. 

• why there is no “one size fits all” strategy when it comes to our neurodiverse population

• why neurodiversity should be recognised, supported and embraced as a difference, not as a disorder to “fix”or change, and much more! 

Meet our guest: Madonna King

Madonna’s work as a journalist, author and speaker spans politics, business and social policy. She has chaired panels around Australia, written twelve books and advises corporations and governments on understanding teenage girls, the subject of her most recent books, Being 14 (2017), Fathers and Daughters (2018) and Ten-Ager (2021). Out of the Box (2024), co-authored by teen educator and host of ABC’s Parental As Anything, Rebecca Sparrow, is “the only Australian book that brings together expert advice, lived experience, interviews and up-to-date resources to help neurodivergent children thrive.”

Connect with Madonna: Instagram | Website.  

Purchase your copy of Out of The Box online, or from your local independent bookshop, and explore more online resources via rebeccasparrow.com

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We acknowledge the Jaegara and Turrbal People, Traditional Owners of the land on which this podcast is created, and the unceded cultural lands on which our guests live and continue to make and tell stories.