Science  Write  Now

Welcome back to the Science Write Now podcast as we chat to Dr Sue Woolfe and Dr Nicola Redhouse about the neuroscience of creativity, and what makes us wired to write in this special two-part episode. 

Today we have a rich and rare conversation between two exceptionally driven and curious writers who are both intrigued by the science of the brain and unravelling its many layers, functions and dysfunctions when it comes to creativity. Much more than a conversation; get ready for a masterclass in the art and science of storytelling. 

Sue Woolfe has often turned to the world of science to construct her fiction. But is the writing process anything like the scientific method of conducting an experiment? Sue uses the analogy of an igloo: “writing a novel is like building an igloo from the inside out, and discovering when you’re finally finished, you walk outside to admire your igloo, only to find there’s five chimneys and a staircase ending in mid-air.” So, what exactly is happening in the minds of writers as we enter this ‘realm’ of imagination? Sue introduces us to the concept of “loose” and “tight” construing, and the brain science behind it. 

In her in-depth investigation of the brain and the mind, Nicola Redhouse draws on both neuroscience and psychoanalysis to explore writing practice as a relational experience from which affective content might be used to extend and enliven a writer’s conceptual and craft choices. Her recently conferred PhD thesis, ‘The Net of Associations: Psychoanalytic States of Mind Brought to the Page’, contributes to a revised psychoanalytic interpretation for the creative writer. Nicola shares some of the techniques she uses to imbue her writing with ‘wildness’ through a process known as ‘associative thinking and noticing’ (or what Freud termed ‘free association’ and Wilfred Bion’s ‘reverie’ state of mind). 

Traversing the fields of neuroscience, creative arts and psychoanalysis, this conversation explores the very matter from which ideas and imagination arise, as Nicola and Sue delve into their own personal philosophy on the writing and creativity, serendipity, and the elusive science behind it.   

Throughout this special two-part episode, we discuss two books in particular, Sue’s The Mystery of the Cleaning Lady, and Nicola’s memoir, Unlike The Heart. Links to the authors’ websites, publications, interviews and research are detailed in the Show Notes (below), along with further reading on creativity and neuroscience. Enjoy!

SHOW NOTES: Meet our special guests, explore their work, plus further reading, resources and links

Meet Dr Sue Woolfe

Dr. Sue Woolfe is the internationally bestselling author of seven books, including five critically acclaimed works of literary fiction and two works of nonfiction. Her first novel Leaning Towards Infinity won the Christina Stead Award and Commonwealth Writers’ Prize, and has been named "one of the most important books of the century". Sue’s writing has reached international audiences through translation, and her novels have been adapted or optioned for film and stage, including opera. Her non-fiction publications include Making Stories: How Ten Australian Novels Were Written co-authored with Kate Grenville and her PhD thesis: The Mystery of the Cleaning Lady: a Novelist looks at Neuroscience and Creativity was published by UWA in 2007. Sue taught Creative Writing at Sydney University, ANU and at NIDA (National Institute of Dramatic Arts), where she taught playwrights and musicians about neuroscience through the lens of creativity. Sue’s research papers and book chapters are regularly published in academic journals and edited volumes. She also runs a monthly online “Creativity Bar” for creatives of all disciplines. Sue is based on Gadigal Land of the Eora Nation in Sydney. 

Find out more by visiting Sue’s author website and connect with Sue via LinkedIn and be sure to check out her YouTube channel with videos on “The Neuroscience of Creativity”. 

Interviews and media:

• ABC Talking Heads: 'Creativity's Trance' interview with Dr Sue Woolfe (video)

• ABC All in The Mind: Writing the Brain with Dr Sue Woolfe (audio)

• ABC Late Night Live with Dr Sue Woolfe (audio)

• ABC The Science Show with Dr Sue Woolfe (transcript only)

• ABC Big Ideas: Creativity and the Mind (audio)

• ArtsHub: Using neuroscience to stimulate creativity (article)

• GoMA Talks Mastering the mind: Do our brains control our behaviour? (video).

Books/publications (selected):

Non-fiction

The Mystery of the Cleaning Lady: A Writer Looks at Creativity and Neuroscience, (2007, UWA) 

Making Stories: How Ten Australian Novels Were Written (with Kate Grenville), (1991, Allen and Unwin) – an often-quoted resource for writers and creatives alike. 

Fiction:

Leaning Towards Infinity (1996, Random House) winner of Christina Stead Prize in 1997 and the Commonwealth Prize 1998 Internationally published in Europe, UK & the US, re-published by Untapped, the Australian Literary Heritage Project in print 2022, and in ebook, 2023.  Sue says: This novel was motivated by my life-long curiosity about what numbers were really about. I had no training in mathematics and relied entirely on research.

The Secret Cure (2003, Macmillan, then UWA in 2009). Sue says: This novel was based on my own experience of raising an autistic daughter, and what I had to discover about the condition. The composer Wendy Suiter has commissioned it for an opera, and I’ve completed the libretto. 

Do You Love Me or What? a short story collection, (2017, Simon and Schuster) was a runner up for the NSW Women Writers’ Prize (2018). Recently re-published as an ebook. Sue says: These stories I wrote over many years, including one written about an outsider visiting a remote Aboriginal community.

The Oldest Song in the World (Harper Collins; republished as ebook, 2023) Sue says: This novel was based on the 18 months I was permitted to live with my daughter in a remote Aboriginal community in the NT; when I returned to city life, I was aghast at city misunderstandings. 

Painted Woman, (1989 Hudson, Allen&Unwin, Random House in Australia; re-published by Untapped in print 2022, and in ebook, 2023). Sue says: This novel was based on my curiosity about what motivated a visual artist.

View more publications here.

Scholarly:

Sue regularly publishes papers and book chapters about the brain and creativity:

First-Hand Experiences of the Transformation of Traumatic Memories and Cascading Emotions in the Creative Writing Process (book chapter) in The Productivity of Negative Emotions in Postcolonial Literature (2024)

On Waiting Upon: Speculations by an Australian Novelist on the Experience of Writing a Commissioned Novel (book chapter) in The Rise of Australian Neurohumanities, edited by Prof Jean-Francois Vernay (Routledge, 2021)

Enhancing creativity through seven stages of transformation in a graduate level writing course—A mixed method study exploring research on the efficacy of teaching creativity through a neuroscience lens, in Thinking Skills and Creativity (Vol. 38, Dec 2020)

Woolfe, S. (2013). Rogues: A Speculation. In: Shaw, J., Kelly, P., Semler, L.E. (eds) Storytelling: Critical and Creative Approaches. Palgrave Macmillan, London. 

Woolfe, S. (2022) The Writer’s Mind Work: Review of Nigel Krauth’s The Creative Writer’s Mind in TEXT Special Edition (Oct 2022) 

Sue runs a monthly Creativity Bar for Creatives of all disciplines, which attracted an article in the Times Education Supplement. 

Meet Dr Nicola Redhouse

Dr. Nicola Redhouse is a writer and researcher, whose debut nonfiction book Unlike the Heart: a memoir of brain and mind (UQP, 2019) explores philosophy of mind through her lived experience of early motherhood, and the schisms between biological and psychological approaches to mental health. Nicola has recently completed her PhD (Creative Writing) by Practice Research Symposium, drawing on her personal and intellectual engagement with psychoanalysis through a creative practice lens. Her thesis looked at how psychoanalytic clinical techniques such as "associative listening" can contribute to writing practice. Nicola has a law degree and postgraduate diplomas in creative writing and editing. She has worked as a book editor and now teaches at the University of Melbourne. Her writing features in The Age, the Australian, The Guardian, Griffith Review, Meanjin, Island, and many more. Her poetry has appeared in Cordite, Slow Canoe Live Journal and the Brain Science Network. Nicola is based on Wurundjeri Land of the Kulin Nation in Naarm/Melbourne. 

Find out more by visiting Nicola’s author website and connect with Nicola on LinkedIn.  

Interviews and media (selected):

• ABC The Philosopher's Zone: Mind, Matter and Mothering with Nicola Redhouse (audio)

• ABC All in The Mind: The Post-Natal Mind with Nicola Redhouse (audio)

• ABC Baby Talk: Post-Natal Anxiety with Nicola Redhouse (audio)

• Compulsive Reader interview with Nicola Redhouse on Unlike the Heart (audio)

• Women's Agenda: "I convinced myself panic was normal" by Nicola Redhouse (article)

• Kate Forster: Book Review and Interview with Nicola Redhouse (article)

View more interviews and media here.

Books and selected publications:

• Unlike the Heart: A Memoir of Brain and Mind (UQP, 2019)

• Scandal has erupted over bestselling memoir The Salt Path. In the ‘fake news’ era, what’s the standard for truth in memoir? in The Conversation (9 July 2025)

• Stuff (short fiction) in Griffith Review 88: Culture Vultures

• Transmission / Quantify in Science/Art Network (ScAN) collaboration

Read more of Nicola’s journalism and creative writing.

Scholarly links:

• New Horizons 2025 Fellows announcement (UniMelb) 

• Dr Nicola Redhouse academic profile (UniMelb) 

• The Novel Lab (RMIT) Nicola Redhouse research profile 

Creativity and Neuroscience: Research and readings discussed in the interview

Dull Brains, Mountaineers, and Mosso: Hypoxic Words from on High (Sue)

This historical essay explores a 2014 first-ever English translation of cerebral blood flow studies by nineteenth century physiologist Angelo Mosso.

Storytelling Brain: The Left-Brain Interpreter in Mind Understanding Itself (Nicola)

Decades of research have shown that there is an area in the left-hemisphere of our brains that constantly makes up stories about anything and everything! The pioneer of the research, neuroscientist Michael Gazzaniga and his colleagues call it “the interpreter”.

Modelling and harnessing serendipity as creative writing research (Bianca)

This paper argues that serendipity can be used [as a research method] for creative writing. Often regarded as a ‘mysterious’ or ‘magical’ phenomenon, serendipity can actually be intentionally and methodically harnessed as a research method by creative writers.

Antonio Damasio on The Somatic Marker Hypothesis: An Overview in Science Direct (Sue)

Antonio Damasio on The somatic marker hypothesis and the possible functions of the prefrontal cortex in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society (Sue)

On Not Being Able to Paint and On Creativity by Marion Milner (Sue) 

Wilfred Bion’s ‘free association’ as methodology in research and writing (Google Scholar)

Wilfred Bion’s ‘reverie’ as methodology in research and writing (Google Scholar).

Episode credits

Host: Bianca Millroy

This episode was recorded and produced in Meanjin, Brisbane: a place steeped in history, culture, community, and storytelling. We acknowledge the Jaegara and Turrbal People as the traditional custodians of these lands, the first scientists and storytellers, and pay our respects to Elders, past and present. Always was, Always will be.

Science Write Now is an online journal of creative writing inspired by science. Our latest edition #11 Synergy is out now featuring essays, fiction, poetry and artwork by Australian writers, scientists and artists.

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